Monday, November 28, 2005
Monday, November 14, 2005
Owls and Mice
The owl of chirography knows mouse has no autotomy, writes rhymes of such godwottery, hides honey brimming pottery, tempts bear who philosophically sees everything as lottery.
A tocsin from that delphic bird - the shrill lexicon spills from a trap-jaw. Pity those maimed beasts who, severed and crushed by a steely mandible closing, when from out and above comes a wraithlike descent, perish as sinews come unstitched, and joints unhinged.
Some night-owl woke me - shattering the dome I dreamt in. He was swooping for the mouse I thought up. His white face bloomed in front of mine, blinking like some dumb desert ghost with those black eyes - those devil pearls collecting a votary. Birds tend to fly at glass and kill themselves. Luckily, the mouse was not eaten.
A tocsin from that delphic bird - the shrill lexicon spills from a trap-jaw. Pity those maimed beasts who, severed and crushed by a steely mandible closing, when from out and above comes a wraithlike descent, perish as sinews come unstitched, and joints unhinged.
Some night-owl woke me - shattering the dome I dreamt in. He was swooping for the mouse I thought up. His white face bloomed in front of mine, blinking like some dumb desert ghost with those black eyes - those devil pearls collecting a votary. Birds tend to fly at glass and kill themselves. Luckily, the mouse was not eaten.
Sunday, November 13, 2005
The Last Letter
The future smells like sulfer, like egg salad. Like the hot guts have come up through the cracks. The future sags, bruised as a rotten plum, as ripe as the Devil's cum. Split down the center. A cracked coconut.
What strength is left? Enough to type, to flip a switch, to press a button, to dial. Not enough to survive - to dig a root, to cross a plain, to tear into raw flesh.
A barnicle, an apple pit. A carnival? - a throat is slit.
What strength is left? Enough to type, to flip a switch, to press a button, to dial. Not enough to survive - to dig a root, to cross a plain, to tear into raw flesh.
A barnicle, an apple pit. A carnival? - a throat is slit.
Friday, November 11, 2005
To The Architect
Something is unraveling. I hear metal being cut or shaved. Sparks. Screw-heads sit stripped like busted locks. Every clock is a countdown to death. I feel the rocks shrinking my breath. In a dream I flew through a blue corridor, past doorways and through people bursting into thick lightdust. Thick like pollen, like ragweed, like the sucrose of springtime - like the cavities of summer. The roots of oaks ride canals as boats, in Panama or in Venice.
Somewhere in America thunderheads are poised like flexed biceps, squeezing sweat onto assembly-line houses. The lightening bulges like veins over the graveyards of once-mythic landscapes.
Will there be a grand finale? A climax, a burst, an apex? Will it fizzle-out or just droop? I’m not running around with rattlesnakes, corals, and copperheads raised above my head in fistfuls. Something is unraveling. The signs are like droppings. The dreams are like droppings. Sick. A key with no lock, a foot with no sock, a barn with no cock, a boat with no dock, a ring with no rock. A shock.
Somewhere in America thunderheads are poised like flexed biceps, squeezing sweat onto assembly-line houses. The lightening bulges like veins over the graveyards of once-mythic landscapes.
Will there be a grand finale? A climax, a burst, an apex? Will it fizzle-out or just droop? I’m not running around with rattlesnakes, corals, and copperheads raised above my head in fistfuls. Something is unraveling. The signs are like droppings. The dreams are like droppings. Sick. A key with no lock, a foot with no sock, a barn with no cock, a boat with no dock, a ring with no rock. A shock.
Thursday, November 10, 2005
Subway Encounter
On the way there, a man on the subway is reading a trashy sex novel. He is hunched over. The agonizing, thorn-crowned, solid gold head of Jesus hangs between his legs from a chain around his neck. The train is bumping and convulsing, and Jesus swings to and fro, quietly smacking into the man’s crotch like a morbidly sexed pendulum. All I can think is that Jesus is giving head to this man. The tortured floating head of this deity-pop-star is slapping a penis every two seconds. (He’s got the priests beat, and he doesn’t even have hands.)
On the way back, a man is shooting blanks - some unintelligible diatribe. His eyes move like houseflies, impulsive and fickle. He finally bursts into tears, and I feel terrible for not understanding. We are forced to observe one another, he and I, on the train. He looks around, as puzzled by the rest of the passengers as some of us are by him.
On the way back, a man is shooting blanks - some unintelligible diatribe. His eyes move like houseflies, impulsive and fickle. He finally bursts into tears, and I feel terrible for not understanding. We are forced to observe one another, he and I, on the train. He looks around, as puzzled by the rest of the passengers as some of us are by him.
Friday, November 04, 2005
GOD HATES YOU
GOD HATES YOU
photos, article, and interviews
by Bryan Tanita
The Lord’s tears were pouring down from heaven on the evening of Monday March 28th into the grimy streets of Times Square. God must have been trying to help a group of about ten Topeka, Kansas residents who gathered on a sidewalk-island and faced the Marriot Marquee hotel. His tears, however, and the Topekanites, were unsuccessful in washing away the sins of New York City and the GLAAD awards.
It was a scene reminiscent of holy-rollers quoting scripture, preaching, and picketing against abolition, civil rights, interracial marriage, women’s rights, and other steps taken in the direction of acceptance, tolerance, and understanding. As the saying goes: even Satan himself can quote scripture to further his agenda.
Apparently, not too many people will be getting into heaven. In fact, almost no one will go to Eden-in-the-sky aside from the members of the Westboro Baptist Church and other self-proclaimed “Primitive Baptists” who’s claim to fame (and God’s favor) is leaving no room for interpretation in the Bible. According to the Primitive Baptists that I spoke with, every plain word of the Bible should be taken literally (Unless of course you’re interpreting the word ‘firebrand’ [Amos 4:11] to mean ‘faggot’ as Pastor Phelps does to further his agenda.)
According to Phelps and his followers, all of modern media is run by Satan to promote a homosexual lifestyle. They must have missed the part where homosexuals were marginalized and oppressed for hundreds of years, and still are. Satan is pretty ineffective if Phelps believes that homosexuals have been elevated to an equal status in our society, never mind catered-to.
Pastor Fred Phelps founded the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) in 1955. Phelps was exposed in a court-released document as having been an abused child, and a child-abuser himself. One of his own children refers to him as being “addicted to hate”. The expose’ can be easily accessed anywhere on the Internet by simply searching “Fred Phelps expose’ ”.
The WBC made their pilgrimage, young and old, to Times Square in order to deliver a very important message to those participating in the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) Awards from the Lord himself; “God Hates Fags”. Oh and don’t feel left out if you’re a lezzy. “Dykes are just female fags” according to their website www.godhatesfags.com.
They’ve been spotted picketing with slogans like GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, FAG SIN = 9/11, FDNY IN HELL, and GOD HATES SWEDEN.
According to the WBC, Mathew Shepard, a gay teen that was murdered, is currently burning in hell, as is the children’s television favorite, Mr. Rogers. Apparently he told kids that they’re just fine the way they are. They showed up at both Matthew Shepard’s funeral and Mr. Rogers’ memorial service to let the mourners know that their beloved-departed are burning for all of eternity because they were ‘fags and fag-enablers’. Oh, and Jerry Falwell is in hell (at least they got one right!).
Other people you will be surprised to find burning in hell are the newly added Pope (and every dead Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc…etc… for that matter), and almost everyone in or from Sweden. They also have the chutzpah to come here, to New York City, and say that every single person that died in the September 11th terrorist attacks, including the firefighters, police, and paramedics are in hell. Why? Because 9/11 was a punishment from God for ‘fag sin’.
Let me know if I’m being silly in saying that not too many people really believe in Hell anymore. Somehow I just can’t imagine a creator who would subject people to an eternity of unimaginable suffering for sticking their pee-pee in a pooper or munching on some poontang. Our understanding of history has led a lot of us to believe that Hell has become an old-fashioned magic trick that power-hungry, control-freaks hold over peoples’ heads to get them to do things they want.
The WBC claims that this nation was founded in light and righteousness (aside from that whole genocide of the Native Americans, the Founding Fathers being explicit atheists, slave labor, witch hunts, and other minor details), and the reason that God hates America is that we have moved away from preaching hell-fire against sin.
The WBC sees doom and gloom right around the corner, appropriating the ‘signs of the times’ to indicate that the Angels’ Trumpets will sound out at any moment – upon which they will say a big “Told ya’ so!” and float up into God’s lap like the brown-nosing, tattle-tailing, teachers’ pets they are. They don’t seem to see the pattern that a majority of every single generation since the beginning of civilization believes the world will end in their lifetime.
I have two questions for this God that the WBC claims exists:
1. If being a homo is so unimaginably bad, why was it left out of the Ten Commandments?
2. I am all about clarity. Why do you work in such a mysterious way?
So why should we believe what these messengers of God have to say - as opposed to the thousands of other people who push their agendas and ideologies because they believe just as strongly that they are right? Because, according to these hardcore-haters, if you don’t, you’ll burn in hell forever and ever! And if you don’t believe them, it’s because you’ve been blinded by God to not understand what they’re telling you.
I attempted to ask a few of the members some questions to find out exactly what that message was. They were armed to the teeth with memorized scripture, and circular logics more dizzying than a tornado.
The following interviews were conducted on Monday March 28, 2005 in Times Square, NYC. I will refer to the two that did not identify him and herself as ‘1’ and ‘2’.
Man 1 (Did not identify himself)
(yes, he was wearing a yarmulke! ????? )
Brian Tanita: Would you care to explain what the ‘FAG SIN = 9/11’ sign means?
1: What it has to do with is when a country turns it’s back on God almighty and disobeys every commandment that he has, he’s going to punish a nation. Whether that be by a tsunami, whether that be by two airplanes being hurled out of the sky into the Twin Towers. It doesn’t matter, ‘shall there be, can there be evil in the city and the Lord hath not done it?’ is what this country needs to learn. The Lord God in heaven is sovereign. This country has wholly given itself over under the proposition that it’s ok to be gay. That’s an unholy, ungodly, abominable notion, ‘thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.’ You don’t get to tell God he’s wrong without Him punishing you.
BT: You think that 9/11 was a direct result of homosexuality?
1: It was a direct result of this country’s acceptance of homosexuality, just like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, which was a direct result of their acceptance of homosexuality.
BT: You don’t think it had anything to do with, um, America’s international relations with oil countries?
1: That is a.. Uh.. Well, um, I’m looking at it from a Bible perspective, and that has nothing to do with it. It has solely to do…look if this country…the Bible says that ‘righteousness exalted a nation.’ If your country is not righteous the Lord God in heaven is going to punish it. If you don’t think the Lord God in Heaven could have stopped those airplanes falling out of the sky into the Twin Towers then you’re sadly mistaken. He is sovereign; he has control over all things. The Bible is very clear on this subject.
BT: So then why do you think he’s letting the why you’re here today [the GLAAD Awards] happen?
1: Why’s He letting it happen? Because He’s made those vessels under wrath. These are brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed. He put this event here so we could come here on this day and preach His word and pickle these people in their sins and condemn them like Noah did in his day. That’s my job here. I’m not here to save anybody. Noah didn’t save anybody but his family. That’s the only people that got on the arc during the flood. I’m not here to save these people. If by chance someone does get saved, praise be to God. But I’m here to condemn this world like Noah did, I have no interest. They’re here so that I can preach. That’s why they’re here.
BT: I read on your website that you all consider yourselves ‘Primitive Baptists’. Could you explain what that means?
1: It means, it refers to the old time Baptist preachers and old time Baptist churches, not like these southern Baptist churches who have also conceded this point and started catering to the fags. What it means is that we don’t believe in having Sunday school, we believe in having one church body. We don’t believe in divorce and re-marriage and God knows we don’t believe in homosexuality.
BT: Do you personally hate fags?
1: That is an irrelevant question, but the answer to it is no. The only relevancy on this planet is ‘what does God think?’ and that’s the only thing I’m ever gonna' talk about. It’s not ever gonna’ be about me, because I am an insignificant worm on this planet. It’s all about God.
BT: If it’s all about God then why did he bother creating all of this?
1: Romans: 9 answers that question, and it goes like this ‘Hath not the potter power over the clay out of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto wrath’. He made this creation to show his own power and glory. That’s why he made it.
BT: Is there anything else you’d like to communicate?
1: Absolutely. Everyone on this planet needs to go and visit www.godhatesfags.com, www.godhatesamerica.com, and www.hatemongers.com.
MARGIE PHELPS
Brian Tanita: Why did you come to Times Square today?
Margie Phelps: I came to publish a message in connection with one of the way too many fag events, that it’s not ok to be gay, there is a hell, there is a standard, and there is a day of judgment. That’s all.
BT: I see some other messages here. ‘Thank God for the Tsunami’, ‘Fag sin equals 9/11’, would you care to explain what these are about?
MP: Well they’re all related and here’s why. When a society embraces and institutionalizes the most grievous sin, the way God responds is by hating that society and punishing that society. So that’s the connection. This nation is taking the sin of homosexuality and glorifying it and institutionalizing and they aren’t gonna’ get away with it. It’s just that simple. So things like 9/11, those are just warm-ups, it’s only gonna’ get worse.
BT: Does your organization believe that everything that has happened as far as 9/11, the tsunami, and other large tragedies are all connected to fags?
MP: What I’m telling you is everything that has happened, has happened at God’s hand and what this nation ought to be asking itself is ‘why are these bad things happening and why are we in such a pitiful condition?” and perhaps a clue is because we are proud of our sin.
BT: Has there been a time when we haven’t been in a pitiful condition?
MP: That’s a good question because most nations were founded in paganism and never much pretended to be anything else. But this nation is unique, somewhat like ancient Israel. This nation was founded in light. There used to be preachers preaching all over this country against sin, now the churches encourage sin, something has changed in this nation. And there is a line of verses that you ought to think about that amount to this: The person who knew his masters will and did it not will beaten with many more strafes than the person who knew not his masters will and did it not. There is some responsibility invested when you know the truth. This nation was founded in righteousness, so they’re in for some trouble and have got a lot of explaining to do.
BT: What would you ay to someone who believes that the Bible is something that has been interpreted and translated a bunch of times and it could have different messages than the ones you preach?
MP: First of all, they don’t believe in God. Because if you have a sovereign God, do you think it would be difficult for him to preserve his word. So they don’t believe in the sovereignty of God, and the scriptures say that there is no scripture given to interpretation. Here is what I really have to say to all that blah blah blah blah blah that goes on all over the world justifying, disobeying plain words out of the scriptures. Hold that happy thought, polish on that theory, and get ready to stand in front of your creator and pitch it to Him. And good luck with that.
BT: You say that it’s plain words, but it was translated from other languages. I was raised in a Jewish family…
MP: I’m sorry.
BT: …Yeah…and I know the Bible was translated from Hebrew into English. Don’t you think things can get lost or confused in translation?
MP: Not if a sovereign God is preserving His word. Here’s why it gets lost. Here’s why you don’t understand it. Here’s why people pretend they don’t understand it. Here’s why people pretend it’s obtuse. It’s called blindness. Now if you have a strong concordance and a Bible, look up when it says God blinded their eyes, hardened their hearts, and stopped up their ears. They don’t understand it because they’re blind to it. That’s why Christ said “I speak in parables so the blind won’t understand it.” You’re not meant to understand it, if you’re a reprobate and if you’re hell-bound.
BT: Do you think people are hell-bound from the beginning?
MP: I think the majority, no question about it. They were ordained and created for that purpose.
BT: If people were created to go to hell, then what’s the purpose of what you’re doing?
MP: Ask God that. What’s the purpose of what I’m doing? Publish. Condemnation. Condemnation.
BT: If people are destined to be condemned, then why bother? What can you do to change it?
MP: Cause they’re still responsible.
BT: How can you be destined and responsible at the same time?
MP: That’s a good question for you to ask your Creator. Here’s an idea for you, when you create a universe and a race of creatures, you make the rules different if you don’t like those rules. But those are the rules. You are responsible and you’re condemned, you’re a dead man walking as far as God is concerned. Now those are the rules.
BT: Is there one specific message you’re trying to get across here today:
MP: Yeah, no anal copulation. No feces eating. Fear God. Keep his commandments. That’s the duty of all of mankind. Don’t make it so complicated, just do it. In the book of Peter, homosexuals are likened to brute beasts to be taken and destroyed. Is it a good idea to let the brute beasts set the standard? Animals have no soul. They were created to serve mankind…
BT: Even a microorganism at the bottom of the ocean that we’ll never see? What service would that have?
MP: That’s another good one to ask God, see if you could trip him up a bit.
BT: My last question for you is do you hate fags?
MP: No! We never say I, me, or we. God’s hate is nothing like human hate. Nothing! It’s perfect by definition. It’s not based on emotion like humans feel toward each other. I don’t hate anybody! In fact, I’m the only person – this group of people is the only group of people who truly love fags. Enough to warn them to flee the wrath to come. You say you love your kids, you tell them the truth. You don’t tell them to go take drugs. What’s the difference? Of course we don’t hate anybody, and they know better.
KARL HOCKENBURGER
Brian Tanita: What’s you name?
Karl Hockenburger: Karl Hockenburger (sp?)
BT: And why did you come to Times Square today?
KH: To put a little bit of sanity in this orgy of fag lies that’s going on across the street that’s giving awards to media that are pro-fag. Not neutral media that report the facts. Media that distort the facts to favor the fags.
(A fire truck interrupts our interview as it turns its sirens on and blocks the group, probably due to their “FDNY IN HELL” signs.)
BT: Do you think that was intentional?
KH: (Laughs) Hecklers veto?
BT: Why such negative messages? And why is it so important to you to get this message out?
KH: Because it’s God’s word and he ordered it to be given out. Just as Noah, for 120 years, built an arc to save his household because he was ordered to by God from God’s wrath on the world. We condemn the world by preaching this unpopular truth, to our benefit, and to the rest of the world’s damnation if they refuse to listen.
BT: Throughout history there have been groups preaching that the Day of Judgment is just around the corner. Do you think the Day of Judgment is right around the corner?
KH: Well, I think all the faithful have believed that the return of Christ is imminent. Jesus himself said that the kingdom of God is at hand. What does at hand mean? Jesus answered that question. ‘Only the Father knows’. We think it’s nearer than yesterday if you have an understanding of linear time. But the kind of signs of the times that we’re seeing certainly meet Christ’s words as it was in the days of Lot, in the days of Noah.
BT: I see that you have some young children here with you. Don’t you think you’re putting them in a dangerous position holding those signs?
KH: Same dangerous position that Noah put his family in, that Lot put his family in.
BT: What other tactics do you use?
KH: We have websites godhatesamerica.com, godhatessweeden.com, and godhatesfags.com. We send out a newsletter, and we preach.
BT: How do you feel about those who claim the Bible is just something that was written and interpreted by people as a guideline or fable and you guys are taking it too far by looking at it word for word?
KH: Well if it’s a guideline then maybe they ought to follow the guideline. But people say ‘oh, it doesn’t mean what it says’. If you treat the human law that way you’re gonna’ end up in a penitentiary. Just because you don’t believe it’s wrong to drive drunk, does that mean you can drive drunk and kill people? You’ve got as much good argument for that as you do for distorting the Bible. I don’t accept that. It’s arrogant sin. That’s a worker of iniquity. It says in Saul 5:5 God hates all workers of iniquity.
BT: Does your organization abide by the golden rule; do unto other as you would have them do unto you?
KH: Absolutely. What better demonstration of that golden rule is the love of our neighbors as Christ commanded us to practice, reaching back into the old Jewish law where it defines loving your neighbor by rebuking them so they do not enter into sin. Would you prefer that we tell everybody that they can sin their way to heaven? That’s like telling a four-year-old to go play in the middle of seventh-avenue or Broadway. That’s insanity! That’s not love, that’s hatred. That also what the bible defines as love and hatred of your neighbor.
BT: Do you believe that God is all-powerful?
KH: He’s an absolute sovereign.
BT: If that’s the case, why do you feel that he can’t deliver his own messages like this? Why do you feel the need to speak for him?
KH: Because he is delivering this message, through us. Just as he delivered Noah through the flood. Just as he delivered Lot by having him exit before Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed. His word is available to all. As it said in both the old and New Testament, ‘He’s blinded the eyes, stopped the ears and hardened the heart of mankind’, they’re not supposed to understand His message. But we’re gonna deliver it anyway.
BT: Doesn’t that sound a little bit silly to you?
KH: If you want to call God silly, be my guest.
BT: I’m not calling God silly. (Interrupted) Let me finish. Why deliver a message that is destined to not be understood or heard? What’s the point?
KH: It’s my duty.
BT: What’s the purpose though.
KH: That’s God’s purpose, so that God can say to each and every one of those individuals, ‘you knew you refused to obey’.
BT: I see a little bit of a logic problem here.
KH: That’s your logic, that’s not God’s logic.
BT: Well God gave me this logic (laughs).
KH: And it’ll take you to hell.
BT: Do you also believe that everyone is destined from birth whether they are going to go to hell or heaven?
KH: Absolutely. Have you not read Romans 9:12 and 13?
BT: Um…
KH: Before Jacob and Esau were born God said ‘Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated’ before they were born and had done neither good or evil. That’s God’s prerogative to do with his creation as He sees fit.
BT: Do you believe in free will?
KH: Absolutely not. Jesus Christ responded to that one with ‘If you believe in free will, grow a cubit.’
BT: A cubit?
KH: That’s an ancient measurement that approximately the distance from the fingertips to the elbow of a young man. Demonstrate your free will. Grow a cubit. If you can’t do the least of those actions, how are you gonna save your soul from a sovereign God who has decreed what you end will be?
BT: Wait…(laughs) how can people make decisions to save themselves if God has decreed they’re going to hell from the get-go?
KH: You just professed the sovereignty of God. God’s word is ‘you are dead in trespasses of sin. Therefore, and only God can give you life’. Now you want to take that to a physical level? Walk into a morgue, open one of the cold drawers, tell the man to get up. Exercise his free will and walk outta' here. He has just as much power as any one of us has to believe.
BT: Thank you for your time. Is there anything else you’d like to say?
KH: Yes. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Fear God, obey His law. Stop the foolishness or you’re gonna’ end up in hell instantly upon your death.
Woman 2 (Did not Identify Herself)
Brian Tanita: Why did you come to Times Square today?
2: Well, we came because the GLAAD Media awards are in the Marriot Marquee tonight.
BT: What are the Glad media awards?
2: That’s the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation – I think is what it stands for. And they give awards away to celebrities who are particularly sensitive of helpful to their cause. And that of course translates into what the Bible calls them: fag enablers.
BT: Does the Bible use that terminology? (laughs)
2: First of all yes, the word ‘Fag’ is in the bible…
BT: Specifically to reference homosexuals?
2: (Nods yes) And in Romans:1 if you start at verse 18 and go through 32 it describes how the Homosexual gets the way they are, why, what they do and why its an abomination, and ends up saying that those who do that are worthy of death, and those that take pleasure in them that do that are worthy of death. And ‘that take pleasure in them’ is – if you look at the etymology of the word, Greek and Hebrew, it means ‘those that enable them to do that’ those that tell them its ok to be gay, it’s an alternate lifestyle, or in some way enable them to continue that lifestyle instead of doing what they’re required to do by the Bible, which is, tell them that their sins are taking them to hell. That’s the way the Bible says ‘Treat your neighbor as yourself’.
BT: So, I see a lot of signs that seem to be on the negative side, and I’m just wondering why you don’t have any signs that say ‘God Loves’ such and such, you know positive reinforcement, saying what good things are?
2: Well, first of all God’s attribute of hate is just as important as his attribute of love. And his attribute of love is reserved for his elect. So when we are out here on the streets telling people what God’s word is, the reason we are here is because it is clear that the people in this entire world need to hear the message of God’s hate more than they need air to breathe.
BT: Does the Bible say anything specifically about spreading feelings of hate?
2: What the Bible says is that you’re supposed to tell this message to every human that you can reach and that you’re not supposed to leave any part out…
BT: That seems like a lot of stuff to have to tell every single person (laughs).
2: Absolutely, but you know the Lord has provided us other ways than standing out here, which of course is very important, but also he’s provided us ways such as our websites, and individuals that call all the time and want to do documentaries and we’re on the news all the time, this message is received by a huge volume of people. We know this by the volume of emails we get on our website from all over the world.
BT: Do you consider yourselves an organization?
2: We are the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.
BT: What would do if you found out that one of your members or one of your children were a homosexual?
2: Well first of all you say what would you do if you found out. You understand that part of our duty as the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is to know what every single person is doing that is a member of the church on a daily basis and what their heart is about, you know, what they’re thinking, and to look out for their souls every day. Every day. You understand, if you’re a member of the Church of The Lord Jesus Christ you’re all of one body. So you have a duty. Wouldn’t you take care of your own body? Wouldn’t you make sure your own body is doing well?
BT: Of course.
2: So if you think about it that way, we have a duty to know what every one of our members is doing, feeling, saying, their lifestyle. So it’s not gonna’ be any mystery.
BT: Right, so if one of your members came to you and said ‘I’m having these homosexual feelings’ what would you advise them to do, how would deal with that, and first of all has this happened before?
2: No. The first thing is to tell them what the Bible’s standard is and, and – oh I’m sorry, the first thing - well no, the first thing is to tell them what the bible’s standard is and um, tell them what they’re doing is wrong and why. And then if they don’t hear you, then they will no longer be a member of the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, and after that we don’t care, we’ve done our job.
BT: What would you say to someone who claims that Jesus is supposed to love everyone, and asked why you are spreading this message of hate?
2: Because there is not one verse in the bible that says Jesus loves everyone. That’s the big lie.
BT: Perpetuated by whom?
2: (Shrugs) Mankind. Every preacher almost to the last mad-jack of ‘em, promotes that message. And they are going to be responsible for the volume of people that were under them, that heard their message and wind up going to hell. Their blood is going to be on their hands.
BT: Do you consider homosexuality something to be worse than, let’s say, murder?
2: Do you understand that there is only one sin in the Bible that the Lord refers to as an ‘abomination’ and says that you’re worthy of death?
BT: So, What’s the direct translation into the word ‘abomination’? Was it from Hebrew?
2: Hebrew.
BT: What’s the Hebrew word from abomination, do you know?
2: Well, we know it’s worse than hate. You know I’ve looked that up before and now I cannot draw all the lines to my mind, because when I was appearing before the city council in Topeka when they were deciding whether there should be an ordinance for the homosexuals, I looked up that word because of course in Leviticus 18:22 it says “thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination” so I wanted to make it clear to them that when it says abomination, it doesn’t just mean hate. It means abhor – very strong words, even stronger than hate.
BT: What would you say to someone who doesn’t align themselves with western religion or who isn’t Christian, maybe someone who is Buddhist?
2: Well first of all do you think it’s difficult for the Lord to being his sheep to him? No, it doesn’t matter where they’re from or what they profess to believe at the moment. When he strikes them down like he did Saul, who is Paul of course, he was Saul when he was against the Lord – He struck him down and he blinded him. He couldn’t have been further from the truth than the rest of these people (signals around) we see every day. When the Lord gets a hold of you, if you’re one of his elect, if you’re one of his sheep, it doesn’t matter where you are, it doesn’t matter what you’ve heard all your life, its gonna’ happen its gonna’ happen quick and you’re gonna’ know it. And after that he’s gonna’ open up your heart to let you receive him, and then it’s gonna’ just come pouring out of you. There’s no question about it. No matter where you’re from or what you believe.
BT: I’ve hard that your group pickets funerals of homosexuals. Why do you do this?
2: Think of it from this perspective. Dying time is truth time. The person that is laying in the grave, of course their soul isn’t there. It’s just a body. Their soul has either already gone to heaven or to hell. Presumably gone to hell or we wouldn’t be there. So, the people that are going in there, there’s still a chance for them to repent. And the Bible says ‘let the dead bury their dead’. Jesus was talking to a man who He wanted to come with Him, and the man said ‘I can’t, I have to bury my mother’ – or father, I can’t remember. And Jesus said ‘let the dead bury their dead, you should take up your cross and follow me’. The point is, don’t worship the dead. If you’ve got an opportunity to see the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ when you go into a funeral and that may be what causes you to receive this message then we’ve done our job. And furthermore, whether you receive it or not, we have a duty to tell you what the truth is because you’re still alive and you still have an opportunity to repent, as opposed to them. And I’m telling you that the person lying there, or the body rather, their soul is screaming out in hell ‘listen to ‘em!’ because that person doesn’t have an opportunity anymore but you do. Now if you look at it from that perspective, is there really something wrong with us being there at the funerals to tell people what the truth of God is who still have an opportunity to repent?
BT: Is there anything else you would like to say?
2: You need to understand that God’s word is clear; it’s not ok to be gay. There is gonna’ be a day of judgment, there is a God in heaven, and if you live the lifestyle of a homosexual you’re gonna’ split hell wide open. That’s the best news that I can give you. It’s the only thing that’s gonna save you if anything is gonna’ save you.
For more on the WBC: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91136-1200311,00.html
Bryan Tanita is an artist, writer, and filmmaker living in Brooklyn. He loves queers.
photos, article, and interviews
by Bryan Tanita
The Lord’s tears were pouring down from heaven on the evening of Monday March 28th into the grimy streets of Times Square. God must have been trying to help a group of about ten Topeka, Kansas residents who gathered on a sidewalk-island and faced the Marriot Marquee hotel. His tears, however, and the Topekanites, were unsuccessful in washing away the sins of New York City and the GLAAD awards.
It was a scene reminiscent of holy-rollers quoting scripture, preaching, and picketing against abolition, civil rights, interracial marriage, women’s rights, and other steps taken in the direction of acceptance, tolerance, and understanding. As the saying goes: even Satan himself can quote scripture to further his agenda.
Apparently, not too many people will be getting into heaven. In fact, almost no one will go to Eden-in-the-sky aside from the members of the Westboro Baptist Church and other self-proclaimed “Primitive Baptists” who’s claim to fame (and God’s favor) is leaving no room for interpretation in the Bible. According to the Primitive Baptists that I spoke with, every plain word of the Bible should be taken literally (Unless of course you’re interpreting the word ‘firebrand’ [Amos 4:11] to mean ‘faggot’ as Pastor Phelps does to further his agenda.)
According to Phelps and his followers, all of modern media is run by Satan to promote a homosexual lifestyle. They must have missed the part where homosexuals were marginalized and oppressed for hundreds of years, and still are. Satan is pretty ineffective if Phelps believes that homosexuals have been elevated to an equal status in our society, never mind catered-to.
Pastor Fred Phelps founded the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) in 1955. Phelps was exposed in a court-released document as having been an abused child, and a child-abuser himself. One of his own children refers to him as being “addicted to hate”. The expose’ can be easily accessed anywhere on the Internet by simply searching “Fred Phelps expose’ ”.
The WBC made their pilgrimage, young and old, to Times Square in order to deliver a very important message to those participating in the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) Awards from the Lord himself; “God Hates Fags”. Oh and don’t feel left out if you’re a lezzy. “Dykes are just female fags” according to their website www.godhatesfags.com.
They’ve been spotted picketing with slogans like GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, FAG SIN = 9/11, FDNY IN HELL, and GOD HATES SWEDEN.
According to the WBC, Mathew Shepard, a gay teen that was murdered, is currently burning in hell, as is the children’s television favorite, Mr. Rogers. Apparently he told kids that they’re just fine the way they are. They showed up at both Matthew Shepard’s funeral and Mr. Rogers’ memorial service to let the mourners know that their beloved-departed are burning for all of eternity because they were ‘fags and fag-enablers’. Oh, and Jerry Falwell is in hell (at least they got one right!).
Other people you will be surprised to find burning in hell are the newly added Pope (and every dead Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc…etc… for that matter), and almost everyone in or from Sweden. They also have the chutzpah to come here, to New York City, and say that every single person that died in the September 11th terrorist attacks, including the firefighters, police, and paramedics are in hell. Why? Because 9/11 was a punishment from God for ‘fag sin’.
Let me know if I’m being silly in saying that not too many people really believe in Hell anymore. Somehow I just can’t imagine a creator who would subject people to an eternity of unimaginable suffering for sticking their pee-pee in a pooper or munching on some poontang. Our understanding of history has led a lot of us to believe that Hell has become an old-fashioned magic trick that power-hungry, control-freaks hold over peoples’ heads to get them to do things they want.
The WBC claims that this nation was founded in light and righteousness (aside from that whole genocide of the Native Americans, the Founding Fathers being explicit atheists, slave labor, witch hunts, and other minor details), and the reason that God hates America is that we have moved away from preaching hell-fire against sin.
The WBC sees doom and gloom right around the corner, appropriating the ‘signs of the times’ to indicate that the Angels’ Trumpets will sound out at any moment – upon which they will say a big “Told ya’ so!” and float up into God’s lap like the brown-nosing, tattle-tailing, teachers’ pets they are. They don’t seem to see the pattern that a majority of every single generation since the beginning of civilization believes the world will end in their lifetime.
I have two questions for this God that the WBC claims exists:
1. If being a homo is so unimaginably bad, why was it left out of the Ten Commandments?
2. I am all about clarity. Why do you work in such a mysterious way?
So why should we believe what these messengers of God have to say - as opposed to the thousands of other people who push their agendas and ideologies because they believe just as strongly that they are right? Because, according to these hardcore-haters, if you don’t, you’ll burn in hell forever and ever! And if you don’t believe them, it’s because you’ve been blinded by God to not understand what they’re telling you.
I attempted to ask a few of the members some questions to find out exactly what that message was. They were armed to the teeth with memorized scripture, and circular logics more dizzying than a tornado.
The following interviews were conducted on Monday March 28, 2005 in Times Square, NYC. I will refer to the two that did not identify him and herself as ‘1’ and ‘2’.
Man 1 (Did not identify himself)
(yes, he was wearing a yarmulke! ????? )
Brian Tanita: Would you care to explain what the ‘FAG SIN = 9/11’ sign means?
1: What it has to do with is when a country turns it’s back on God almighty and disobeys every commandment that he has, he’s going to punish a nation. Whether that be by a tsunami, whether that be by two airplanes being hurled out of the sky into the Twin Towers. It doesn’t matter, ‘shall there be, can there be evil in the city and the Lord hath not done it?’ is what this country needs to learn. The Lord God in heaven is sovereign. This country has wholly given itself over under the proposition that it’s ok to be gay. That’s an unholy, ungodly, abominable notion, ‘thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.’ You don’t get to tell God he’s wrong without Him punishing you.
BT: You think that 9/11 was a direct result of homosexuality?
1: It was a direct result of this country’s acceptance of homosexuality, just like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, which was a direct result of their acceptance of homosexuality.
BT: You don’t think it had anything to do with, um, America’s international relations with oil countries?
1: That is a.. Uh.. Well, um, I’m looking at it from a Bible perspective, and that has nothing to do with it. It has solely to do…look if this country…the Bible says that ‘righteousness exalted a nation.’ If your country is not righteous the Lord God in heaven is going to punish it. If you don’t think the Lord God in Heaven could have stopped those airplanes falling out of the sky into the Twin Towers then you’re sadly mistaken. He is sovereign; he has control over all things. The Bible is very clear on this subject.
BT: So then why do you think he’s letting the why you’re here today [the GLAAD Awards] happen?
1: Why’s He letting it happen? Because He’s made those vessels under wrath. These are brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed. He put this event here so we could come here on this day and preach His word and pickle these people in their sins and condemn them like Noah did in his day. That’s my job here. I’m not here to save anybody. Noah didn’t save anybody but his family. That’s the only people that got on the arc during the flood. I’m not here to save these people. If by chance someone does get saved, praise be to God. But I’m here to condemn this world like Noah did, I have no interest. They’re here so that I can preach. That’s why they’re here.
BT: I read on your website that you all consider yourselves ‘Primitive Baptists’. Could you explain what that means?
1: It means, it refers to the old time Baptist preachers and old time Baptist churches, not like these southern Baptist churches who have also conceded this point and started catering to the fags. What it means is that we don’t believe in having Sunday school, we believe in having one church body. We don’t believe in divorce and re-marriage and God knows we don’t believe in homosexuality.
BT: Do you personally hate fags?
1: That is an irrelevant question, but the answer to it is no. The only relevancy on this planet is ‘what does God think?’ and that’s the only thing I’m ever gonna' talk about. It’s not ever gonna’ be about me, because I am an insignificant worm on this planet. It’s all about God.
BT: If it’s all about God then why did he bother creating all of this?
1: Romans: 9 answers that question, and it goes like this ‘Hath not the potter power over the clay out of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto wrath’. He made this creation to show his own power and glory. That’s why he made it.
BT: Is there anything else you’d like to communicate?
1: Absolutely. Everyone on this planet needs to go and visit www.godhatesfags.com, www.godhatesamerica.com, and www.hatemongers.com.
MARGIE PHELPS
Brian Tanita: Why did you come to Times Square today?
Margie Phelps: I came to publish a message in connection with one of the way too many fag events, that it’s not ok to be gay, there is a hell, there is a standard, and there is a day of judgment. That’s all.
BT: I see some other messages here. ‘Thank God for the Tsunami’, ‘Fag sin equals 9/11’, would you care to explain what these are about?
MP: Well they’re all related and here’s why. When a society embraces and institutionalizes the most grievous sin, the way God responds is by hating that society and punishing that society. So that’s the connection. This nation is taking the sin of homosexuality and glorifying it and institutionalizing and they aren’t gonna’ get away with it. It’s just that simple. So things like 9/11, those are just warm-ups, it’s only gonna’ get worse.
BT: Does your organization believe that everything that has happened as far as 9/11, the tsunami, and other large tragedies are all connected to fags?
MP: What I’m telling you is everything that has happened, has happened at God’s hand and what this nation ought to be asking itself is ‘why are these bad things happening and why are we in such a pitiful condition?” and perhaps a clue is because we are proud of our sin.
BT: Has there been a time when we haven’t been in a pitiful condition?
MP: That’s a good question because most nations were founded in paganism and never much pretended to be anything else. But this nation is unique, somewhat like ancient Israel. This nation was founded in light. There used to be preachers preaching all over this country against sin, now the churches encourage sin, something has changed in this nation. And there is a line of verses that you ought to think about that amount to this: The person who knew his masters will and did it not will beaten with many more strafes than the person who knew not his masters will and did it not. There is some responsibility invested when you know the truth. This nation was founded in righteousness, so they’re in for some trouble and have got a lot of explaining to do.
BT: What would you ay to someone who believes that the Bible is something that has been interpreted and translated a bunch of times and it could have different messages than the ones you preach?
MP: First of all, they don’t believe in God. Because if you have a sovereign God, do you think it would be difficult for him to preserve his word. So they don’t believe in the sovereignty of God, and the scriptures say that there is no scripture given to interpretation. Here is what I really have to say to all that blah blah blah blah blah that goes on all over the world justifying, disobeying plain words out of the scriptures. Hold that happy thought, polish on that theory, and get ready to stand in front of your creator and pitch it to Him. And good luck with that.
BT: You say that it’s plain words, but it was translated from other languages. I was raised in a Jewish family…
MP: I’m sorry.
BT: …Yeah…and I know the Bible was translated from Hebrew into English. Don’t you think things can get lost or confused in translation?
MP: Not if a sovereign God is preserving His word. Here’s why it gets lost. Here’s why you don’t understand it. Here’s why people pretend they don’t understand it. Here’s why people pretend it’s obtuse. It’s called blindness. Now if you have a strong concordance and a Bible, look up when it says God blinded their eyes, hardened their hearts, and stopped up their ears. They don’t understand it because they’re blind to it. That’s why Christ said “I speak in parables so the blind won’t understand it.” You’re not meant to understand it, if you’re a reprobate and if you’re hell-bound.
BT: Do you think people are hell-bound from the beginning?
MP: I think the majority, no question about it. They were ordained and created for that purpose.
BT: If people were created to go to hell, then what’s the purpose of what you’re doing?
MP: Ask God that. What’s the purpose of what I’m doing? Publish. Condemnation. Condemnation.
BT: If people are destined to be condemned, then why bother? What can you do to change it?
MP: Cause they’re still responsible.
BT: How can you be destined and responsible at the same time?
MP: That’s a good question for you to ask your Creator. Here’s an idea for you, when you create a universe and a race of creatures, you make the rules different if you don’t like those rules. But those are the rules. You are responsible and you’re condemned, you’re a dead man walking as far as God is concerned. Now those are the rules.
BT: Is there one specific message you’re trying to get across here today:
MP: Yeah, no anal copulation. No feces eating. Fear God. Keep his commandments. That’s the duty of all of mankind. Don’t make it so complicated, just do it. In the book of Peter, homosexuals are likened to brute beasts to be taken and destroyed. Is it a good idea to let the brute beasts set the standard? Animals have no soul. They were created to serve mankind…
BT: Even a microorganism at the bottom of the ocean that we’ll never see? What service would that have?
MP: That’s another good one to ask God, see if you could trip him up a bit.
BT: My last question for you is do you hate fags?
MP: No! We never say I, me, or we. God’s hate is nothing like human hate. Nothing! It’s perfect by definition. It’s not based on emotion like humans feel toward each other. I don’t hate anybody! In fact, I’m the only person – this group of people is the only group of people who truly love fags. Enough to warn them to flee the wrath to come. You say you love your kids, you tell them the truth. You don’t tell them to go take drugs. What’s the difference? Of course we don’t hate anybody, and they know better.
KARL HOCKENBURGER
Brian Tanita: What’s you name?
Karl Hockenburger: Karl Hockenburger (sp?)
BT: And why did you come to Times Square today?
KH: To put a little bit of sanity in this orgy of fag lies that’s going on across the street that’s giving awards to media that are pro-fag. Not neutral media that report the facts. Media that distort the facts to favor the fags.
(A fire truck interrupts our interview as it turns its sirens on and blocks the group, probably due to their “FDNY IN HELL” signs.)
BT: Do you think that was intentional?
KH: (Laughs) Hecklers veto?
BT: Why such negative messages? And why is it so important to you to get this message out?
KH: Because it’s God’s word and he ordered it to be given out. Just as Noah, for 120 years, built an arc to save his household because he was ordered to by God from God’s wrath on the world. We condemn the world by preaching this unpopular truth, to our benefit, and to the rest of the world’s damnation if they refuse to listen.
BT: Throughout history there have been groups preaching that the Day of Judgment is just around the corner. Do you think the Day of Judgment is right around the corner?
KH: Well, I think all the faithful have believed that the return of Christ is imminent. Jesus himself said that the kingdom of God is at hand. What does at hand mean? Jesus answered that question. ‘Only the Father knows’. We think it’s nearer than yesterday if you have an understanding of linear time. But the kind of signs of the times that we’re seeing certainly meet Christ’s words as it was in the days of Lot, in the days of Noah.
BT: I see that you have some young children here with you. Don’t you think you’re putting them in a dangerous position holding those signs?
KH: Same dangerous position that Noah put his family in, that Lot put his family in.
BT: What other tactics do you use?
KH: We have websites godhatesamerica.com, godhatessweeden.com, and godhatesfags.com. We send out a newsletter, and we preach.
BT: How do you feel about those who claim the Bible is just something that was written and interpreted by people as a guideline or fable and you guys are taking it too far by looking at it word for word?
KH: Well if it’s a guideline then maybe they ought to follow the guideline. But people say ‘oh, it doesn’t mean what it says’. If you treat the human law that way you’re gonna’ end up in a penitentiary. Just because you don’t believe it’s wrong to drive drunk, does that mean you can drive drunk and kill people? You’ve got as much good argument for that as you do for distorting the Bible. I don’t accept that. It’s arrogant sin. That’s a worker of iniquity. It says in Saul 5:5 God hates all workers of iniquity.
BT: Does your organization abide by the golden rule; do unto other as you would have them do unto you?
KH: Absolutely. What better demonstration of that golden rule is the love of our neighbors as Christ commanded us to practice, reaching back into the old Jewish law where it defines loving your neighbor by rebuking them so they do not enter into sin. Would you prefer that we tell everybody that they can sin their way to heaven? That’s like telling a four-year-old to go play in the middle of seventh-avenue or Broadway. That’s insanity! That’s not love, that’s hatred. That also what the bible defines as love and hatred of your neighbor.
BT: Do you believe that God is all-powerful?
KH: He’s an absolute sovereign.
BT: If that’s the case, why do you feel that he can’t deliver his own messages like this? Why do you feel the need to speak for him?
KH: Because he is delivering this message, through us. Just as he delivered Noah through the flood. Just as he delivered Lot by having him exit before Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed. His word is available to all. As it said in both the old and New Testament, ‘He’s blinded the eyes, stopped the ears and hardened the heart of mankind’, they’re not supposed to understand His message. But we’re gonna deliver it anyway.
BT: Doesn’t that sound a little bit silly to you?
KH: If you want to call God silly, be my guest.
BT: I’m not calling God silly. (Interrupted) Let me finish. Why deliver a message that is destined to not be understood or heard? What’s the point?
KH: It’s my duty.
BT: What’s the purpose though.
KH: That’s God’s purpose, so that God can say to each and every one of those individuals, ‘you knew you refused to obey’.
BT: I see a little bit of a logic problem here.
KH: That’s your logic, that’s not God’s logic.
BT: Well God gave me this logic (laughs).
KH: And it’ll take you to hell.
BT: Do you also believe that everyone is destined from birth whether they are going to go to hell or heaven?
KH: Absolutely. Have you not read Romans 9:12 and 13?
BT: Um…
KH: Before Jacob and Esau were born God said ‘Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated’ before they were born and had done neither good or evil. That’s God’s prerogative to do with his creation as He sees fit.
BT: Do you believe in free will?
KH: Absolutely not. Jesus Christ responded to that one with ‘If you believe in free will, grow a cubit.’
BT: A cubit?
KH: That’s an ancient measurement that approximately the distance from the fingertips to the elbow of a young man. Demonstrate your free will. Grow a cubit. If you can’t do the least of those actions, how are you gonna save your soul from a sovereign God who has decreed what you end will be?
BT: Wait…(laughs) how can people make decisions to save themselves if God has decreed they’re going to hell from the get-go?
KH: You just professed the sovereignty of God. God’s word is ‘you are dead in trespasses of sin. Therefore, and only God can give you life’. Now you want to take that to a physical level? Walk into a morgue, open one of the cold drawers, tell the man to get up. Exercise his free will and walk outta' here. He has just as much power as any one of us has to believe.
BT: Thank you for your time. Is there anything else you’d like to say?
KH: Yes. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Fear God, obey His law. Stop the foolishness or you’re gonna’ end up in hell instantly upon your death.
Woman 2 (Did not Identify Herself)
Brian Tanita: Why did you come to Times Square today?
2: Well, we came because the GLAAD Media awards are in the Marriot Marquee tonight.
BT: What are the Glad media awards?
2: That’s the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation – I think is what it stands for. And they give awards away to celebrities who are particularly sensitive of helpful to their cause. And that of course translates into what the Bible calls them: fag enablers.
BT: Does the Bible use that terminology? (laughs)
2: First of all yes, the word ‘Fag’ is in the bible…
BT: Specifically to reference homosexuals?
2: (Nods yes) And in Romans:1 if you start at verse 18 and go through 32 it describes how the Homosexual gets the way they are, why, what they do and why its an abomination, and ends up saying that those who do that are worthy of death, and those that take pleasure in them that do that are worthy of death. And ‘that take pleasure in them’ is – if you look at the etymology of the word, Greek and Hebrew, it means ‘those that enable them to do that’ those that tell them its ok to be gay, it’s an alternate lifestyle, or in some way enable them to continue that lifestyle instead of doing what they’re required to do by the Bible, which is, tell them that their sins are taking them to hell. That’s the way the Bible says ‘Treat your neighbor as yourself’.
BT: So, I see a lot of signs that seem to be on the negative side, and I’m just wondering why you don’t have any signs that say ‘God Loves’ such and such, you know positive reinforcement, saying what good things are?
2: Well, first of all God’s attribute of hate is just as important as his attribute of love. And his attribute of love is reserved for his elect. So when we are out here on the streets telling people what God’s word is, the reason we are here is because it is clear that the people in this entire world need to hear the message of God’s hate more than they need air to breathe.
BT: Does the Bible say anything specifically about spreading feelings of hate?
2: What the Bible says is that you’re supposed to tell this message to every human that you can reach and that you’re not supposed to leave any part out…
BT: That seems like a lot of stuff to have to tell every single person (laughs).
2: Absolutely, but you know the Lord has provided us other ways than standing out here, which of course is very important, but also he’s provided us ways such as our websites, and individuals that call all the time and want to do documentaries and we’re on the news all the time, this message is received by a huge volume of people. We know this by the volume of emails we get on our website from all over the world.
BT: Do you consider yourselves an organization?
2: We are the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.
BT: What would do if you found out that one of your members or one of your children were a homosexual?
2: Well first of all you say what would you do if you found out. You understand that part of our duty as the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is to know what every single person is doing that is a member of the church on a daily basis and what their heart is about, you know, what they’re thinking, and to look out for their souls every day. Every day. You understand, if you’re a member of the Church of The Lord Jesus Christ you’re all of one body. So you have a duty. Wouldn’t you take care of your own body? Wouldn’t you make sure your own body is doing well?
BT: Of course.
2: So if you think about it that way, we have a duty to know what every one of our members is doing, feeling, saying, their lifestyle. So it’s not gonna’ be any mystery.
BT: Right, so if one of your members came to you and said ‘I’m having these homosexual feelings’ what would you advise them to do, how would deal with that, and first of all has this happened before?
2: No. The first thing is to tell them what the Bible’s standard is and, and – oh I’m sorry, the first thing - well no, the first thing is to tell them what the bible’s standard is and um, tell them what they’re doing is wrong and why. And then if they don’t hear you, then they will no longer be a member of the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, and after that we don’t care, we’ve done our job.
BT: What would you say to someone who claims that Jesus is supposed to love everyone, and asked why you are spreading this message of hate?
2: Because there is not one verse in the bible that says Jesus loves everyone. That’s the big lie.
BT: Perpetuated by whom?
2: (Shrugs) Mankind. Every preacher almost to the last mad-jack of ‘em, promotes that message. And they are going to be responsible for the volume of people that were under them, that heard their message and wind up going to hell. Their blood is going to be on their hands.
BT: Do you consider homosexuality something to be worse than, let’s say, murder?
2: Do you understand that there is only one sin in the Bible that the Lord refers to as an ‘abomination’ and says that you’re worthy of death?
BT: So, What’s the direct translation into the word ‘abomination’? Was it from Hebrew?
2: Hebrew.
BT: What’s the Hebrew word from abomination, do you know?
2: Well, we know it’s worse than hate. You know I’ve looked that up before and now I cannot draw all the lines to my mind, because when I was appearing before the city council in Topeka when they were deciding whether there should be an ordinance for the homosexuals, I looked up that word because of course in Leviticus 18:22 it says “thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination” so I wanted to make it clear to them that when it says abomination, it doesn’t just mean hate. It means abhor – very strong words, even stronger than hate.
BT: What would you say to someone who doesn’t align themselves with western religion or who isn’t Christian, maybe someone who is Buddhist?
2: Well first of all do you think it’s difficult for the Lord to being his sheep to him? No, it doesn’t matter where they’re from or what they profess to believe at the moment. When he strikes them down like he did Saul, who is Paul of course, he was Saul when he was against the Lord – He struck him down and he blinded him. He couldn’t have been further from the truth than the rest of these people (signals around) we see every day. When the Lord gets a hold of you, if you’re one of his elect, if you’re one of his sheep, it doesn’t matter where you are, it doesn’t matter what you’ve heard all your life, its gonna’ happen its gonna’ happen quick and you’re gonna’ know it. And after that he’s gonna’ open up your heart to let you receive him, and then it’s gonna’ just come pouring out of you. There’s no question about it. No matter where you’re from or what you believe.
BT: I’ve hard that your group pickets funerals of homosexuals. Why do you do this?
2: Think of it from this perspective. Dying time is truth time. The person that is laying in the grave, of course their soul isn’t there. It’s just a body. Their soul has either already gone to heaven or to hell. Presumably gone to hell or we wouldn’t be there. So, the people that are going in there, there’s still a chance for them to repent. And the Bible says ‘let the dead bury their dead’. Jesus was talking to a man who He wanted to come with Him, and the man said ‘I can’t, I have to bury my mother’ – or father, I can’t remember. And Jesus said ‘let the dead bury their dead, you should take up your cross and follow me’. The point is, don’t worship the dead. If you’ve got an opportunity to see the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ when you go into a funeral and that may be what causes you to receive this message then we’ve done our job. And furthermore, whether you receive it or not, we have a duty to tell you what the truth is because you’re still alive and you still have an opportunity to repent, as opposed to them. And I’m telling you that the person lying there, or the body rather, their soul is screaming out in hell ‘listen to ‘em!’ because that person doesn’t have an opportunity anymore but you do. Now if you look at it from that perspective, is there really something wrong with us being there at the funerals to tell people what the truth of God is who still have an opportunity to repent?
BT: Is there anything else you would like to say?
2: You need to understand that God’s word is clear; it’s not ok to be gay. There is gonna’ be a day of judgment, there is a God in heaven, and if you live the lifestyle of a homosexual you’re gonna’ split hell wide open. That’s the best news that I can give you. It’s the only thing that’s gonna save you if anything is gonna’ save you.
For more on the WBC: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91136-1200311,00.html
Bryan Tanita is an artist, writer, and filmmaker living in Brooklyn. He loves queers.